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Marler Blog Providing Commentary on Food Poisoning Outbreaks & Litigation

Even the Weston A. Price Foundation is Learning about the Risks of Raw Milk

It is great that there is such a big interest in the Real Raw Milk Facts Poster at the IAFP Conference. Even a Board member of Weston A. Price stopped by to learn.

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Geoffrey Morell, ND, JP, (Secretary), is a practicing naturopath, specializing in the past 20 years in the field commonly called magnetic, intuitive, spiritual or psychic healing. He has developed his own unique Clendinning Technique. He had a grass-based dairy farm in New Zealand for over 30 years. He is an expert in natural farming methods, including natural methods for animal care and pest and weed control. He served as an elected official in New Zealand for 6 terms and was a founder and candidate for the Social Credit Party in New Zealand. He is a popular lecturer at many health and New Age conferences throughout the world.

  • The Weston A. Price Foundation is very much aware of the minimal risks inherent in properly produced and handled raw milk from pastured cows. These risks are much, much lower than the risks of consuming nearly any other food, as CDC data shows. Geoffrey is likely “documenting” vs. “learning.” :)

  • Doc Mudd

    Spiritual or psychic healing, eh? Clendinning Technique[TM], you say?
    Don’t look now, but I think he’s puttin’ a supersized voodoo hex on sumpin’ (or somebody).
    See in the picture – he’s gettin’ the electromagnetic coordinates all fixated in the magic psychic thing-a-ma-tron[TM].
    Gonna’ put a serious telepathic naturopathic hurtin’ on some deserving heathen non-believer (man, if you feel your ears burnin’ or the hair on your neck raisin’ up, hey, I warned ya).
    I expect Geoff’s accepting donations to whip together version 2.0 of the magic electric thing-a-ma-tron[TM] telepathic healer and voodoo hex launcher…
    [WAPF is a registered 501 (c) (3) charity, so it’s OK, it’s all good].
    Cash or credit card accepted.

  • Bill-
    I dared post on a pro-raw milk website what I thought were dispassionate, valid objections to the language used by raw milk advocates. What I got in return was hate and racist invective that was truly frightening. I understand the desire of these people to have their own way–it’s a common theme. What I don’t understand is how it morphs into scary, anti-social behavior.

  • Mary McGonigle-Martin

    Richard, I’ve been called a propaganda producing child exploiter because I had the audacity to show the video of Chris on the ventilator. Some people have a hard time with the truth, so they have to resort to name calling.

  • Art Davis

    Raw milk is in many ways a religion. The extreme reactions to science based comments on the subject are those of “True believers” and similar to those of folks committed to other religions when scientific studies call into question the fundamentals of their beliefs. An example is the reaction of religious groups to well designed and well run studies demonstrating the ineffectiveness of intercessory prayer. I don’t think there is much to be gained arguing with these folks but it is worth, as Bill does, attempting to protect the innocent, primarily children, from the dangers inherent in the product.

  • But this goes beyond the pale of name-calling, and into the realm of bats*&t-crazy and dangerous:

    From The Bovine:

    “Richard Lerner’s insinuation into this forum of the old canard about ‘Jefferson sleeping with his slaves’, is a wonderful example of a red herring … ny little half-truth will do, to denigrate the reputation of the Founding Fathers … because liberals cannot abide the fact that America was created by white Christians for their posterity.

    The Campaign for REAL MILK is – first and last – a movement of white Christians re-awakening to our racial heritage = the Bible = which is why it’s now targetted by the over-educated ignorami who are bent on globalism aka known as ‘a socialist world government’

    “we must secure the existence of our people, and a future for white children” “

  • Doc Mudd

    Quasi-religious fanaticism flourishes best when the skids are kept well-greased with plenty of cold hard cash.
    Think Jim Bakker & PTL; L. Ron Hubbard & Scientology; Mark McAfee & OPDC; Sally Fallon & WAPF; Helaine Lerner and Johns Hopkins CLF…the list is long. Too long. And growing longer.

  • comeback

    This video is simply stunning. This is America, I can’t believe this is happening here! Guns drawn, 5 governmental agencies, people terrorized! And it happenned again yesterday. I hope you please watch this and then offer comments on how you feel.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioN0ehlyyXI&feature=youtu.be

    http://reason.tv/video/show/rawesome-foods-raided-again

  • comeback

    I’ve been reading FSN and Marler Blog for a while now and really appreciate the discussions about raw milk (and the lively comments!) I really appreciate the work Bill Marler takes on to help protect the consumer.

    I’ve posted some of the info below at FSN and Marler Blog recently, and would like to post here, because I know it represents the thoughts and feelings of MANY raw milk people.

    Living milk (RAW) heals, and promotes life and healing. It contains contains naturally ocurring PROBIOTICS (beneficial bacteria which destroy harmful bacteria). Dead (non-probiotic), diseased milk (PASTEURIZED) sickens, and promotes disease and physical degeneration. The important key is that to be safe, raw milk must come from properly pasture raised, grassfed (NOT GRAIN as this makes cows sick-with sick milk!)cows who are carefully taken care of. Naturaly, this costs a fair amount of money to produce. Greed must be kept out of the equation. This is usually a small farm whose main goals are safety, cleanliness and care of animal and milk and happy customers willing to pay what these things are and really worth (more money to fairly compensate the farmer for his time and energy). Big, greedy agricorporation CAFOs and mega-dairys cheat and skip on through safety, cleanliness, true care and even use controversial(disease causing) groth hormones (rBGH) in relentless pursuit of more,ill-gotten, easier dollars. This is GREED plain and simple, it is cheating by compromising quality for dollars. The only “milk” this system can produce is DISEASED, DEAD milk and it also creates the need to pasteurize this foul, diseased fluid which is the natural result of of this GREED. Like produces like.

    Many of us will not stand for this kind of wrong any longer. We are willing to educate people about truth. We are willing to stand up to the institutions who actively try to hide this truth and put dollars before health. Many of us are willing to fight the ignorance, deciet and greed. If you care about health, truth, helping people, animals and the environment, please join us!

    I don’t know or have any connection to the other commenters. I have no financial interest at stake (I don’t produce any dairy products). It’s just that I (and a LARGE group of area locals here) have to drink black market raw milk right now (because my State is confused about the truth- thank $big agra dollar$) and will fight for the RIGHT to legally access what I believe is the healthiest RAW MILK choice for my family without having to be made to feel like a criminal. And yes, I am slightly upset that our rights are being trampled by big dollar intere$ts, aren’t you? There are millions of us. *Industry insiders- please follow your conscience, do the right thing and stand with those trying to help.

    The simple truth is that properly handled (safe protocol) Raw, live milk is PROBIOTIC (contains LIVING beneficial bacteria which destroy harmful bacteria) Pastuerized milk is DEAD and unhealthy.

    Freedom to pay extra money for extra quality: Nobody is forcing us all to buy raw, organic, high quality, healthy milk. But plenty of powerful intere$ts are trying to force us to buy pasteurized, diseased milk while trying to demonize and outlaw living, raw milk. Who is being decietful? Who is greedy? Who is pushing in a warlike fasion? Is it the big agricorporations and those who allow them (and help them) to continue thier fraudulent, greedy practices, while poisoning the public. Is it the conscientious small organic farmer providing raw, healthy milk to the knowledgeble consumer? Is it the regulatory folks who are supposed to be protecting the public? Is it the knowledgeble and healthful consumer demanding a safe, traditional, raw, living food/drink?

    *Industry insiders- please follow your conscience, do the right thing and stand with those trying to help. Look around, there is a food revolution happening. I would urge you to do further research by going to http://www.realmilk.com and http://www.westonaprice.org

    We need calm heads and a willingness to accept scientific facts. We need to learn that by working together, both “sides” of this argument can better their understanding of the issues. War-like behavior and rhetoric will accomplish no good. We must respect each other and allow the freedom for one to choose what he/she feels is best- please.

  • If anyone here would like to discuss the matter/implications of drinking raw milk, I would like to learn.
    From the research have done on the subject, there are a lot less reports/instances of illness from raw milk than there are from store-bought milk.
    Most EVERY farmer in the country drinks their cow milk straight (and have for millenia).
    Phactory pharm’s cows are fed things we would not even want to know about, much less drink after. We do not learn about the pus pockets and lesioned teats that help spread sickness to the populace.
    How does one get E-coli from spinach?
    Phactory pharms are the scourge of our health, they are anti-health, pro-profit.
    Chickens are pumped full of anti-biotics, the beef is fattened with grain and downer cows, then pumped up with BrGH’s.
    They spray untreated (un-composted) manure on the crops and we end up with Ecoli, salmonella, botulism, etc., in what was once the richest, healthiest country in the world.
    See where we rate today.

  • Doc Mudd

    Yikes!
    Raw milkies’ lame bluff is called and they melt down; they go all Charles Manson on us… and a good time is had by all — the morbid satisfaction of watching a train wreck ;>)
    Oh, boo!! “People terrorized”; “PROBIOTIC, DISEASED, DEAD”; “Phactory pharms”; “pus pockets”, “pumped full”; “pumped up”; pffft, pffffft, etc., etc., blah, blah, blah…
    Panicked whackadoodles frantically hurling their utter nonsense against the wall out of sheer desperation. Ya gotta luv ’em – a sane person couldn’t make that crap up!
    Yeee Haaww, are we havin’ fun yet? Kumbaya, campers, kumbaya!!
    .
    Everything anyone needs to know about raw milk can be found right here:
    http://www.realrawmilkfacts.com/
    A one-stop-shop of common sense!
    Confused by “naturopathy” and other raw milkie ‘alternative’ reality? Look no further:
    http://www.quackwatch.com/

  • And not a single person has come forward to denounce the racist, christian-supremacist statements. Maybe Jews, Muslims (Hindus, etc) and persons of color shouldn’t have opinions on the safety of the food they feed their children, or even live in the United States. Do these people have any shame?

  • Minkpuppy

    Richard,
    I’ve noticed they tend to slink off to whence they came when they can’t come up with anything scientific to back up their claims.

  • comeback

    Its unfortunate the amount of name-calling, characterizations, and accusitory language going on in these and the other forums. Ok, I too have participated but I am attempting to steer these discussions into useful learning for all.

    SUPRISE!- As a raw milk drinker, I agree with the need for oversight and safety standardization in the raw milk sector. I and just about every other raw milk drinker I know would welcome helpful government oversight! If it tested and ensured small raw dairies were practicing safe raw milk handling, proper raw milk proceedures and helped support those small dairies to offer clean, high quality raw milk to the market by advising, testing, research and giving other support. Now that would be a great relationship! I know that kind of governmental support would indeed be welcomed by the raw milk community. To paint “Raw Milkies” as whackos who dont believe in bacteria, cleanliness, proper protocol, and that raw milk is somhow mysteriously “magic” is just wrong. Yeah, there might be some weirdos who actually fit that description- but cleanliness and proper raw milk protocol are of the utmost importance to every raw milk drinker I know! Please don’t let an extremist represent our entire group! A position can be taken to an extreme on either side- but that shouldn’t represent any entire group. So please, lets have some rational discussion and we’ll see that we can each learn something important from the other.

  • Tim Lukens

    As an ex raw milk producer, that has been reading and participating at times in the raw milk forum, I must say that I am very disappointed in how religious phobia, and racism, and bigotry has wormed it’s way into the debate. I’m referring to the statements earlier about preserving white christian something or other and how science has disproven prayer etc, blah, blah, blah. This kind of commenting in my observation has no useful purpose except to show the bigoted ignorance of all that would perpetuate it. This nation is known for our freedom speech and religious beliefs. Bill Marler, in this blog has provided a useful forum for dialog about a very serious topic. It is shameful that some choose to degrade it with such poor choices in commentary.

  • Just stumbled upon this page again. I can’t find, in searching The Bovine site, the racist bit that Richard Lerner quoted. Perhaps it has been taken down. IF it DID say “The Campaign for REAL MILK is – first and last – a movement of white Christians…”, well, The Campaign for Real Milk was started by Sally Fallon of The Weston A. Price Foundation, who is white but not Christian, and I haven’t heard her say anything racist (I have known her about 10 years now). My take on her is that she is actually a very love-filled person who is giving the gift of knowledge about healthy food to the world and wants every child to be well-nourished. Readers here may disagree about what that means, but I am telling you what I see as her motivation. She’s certainly not getting rich on this movement, but her work has empowered a heck of a lot of farmers, food artisans, and entrepreneurs.
    So then, the Campaign for Real Milk is certainly not “first and last” a movement of white Christians. Certainly there are white Christians who promote raw milk; maybe some of them are racist, I don’t know. Sally puts out a chapter leaders’ handbook and regular reminders on the chapter leader email list that chapter leaders proselytizing at chapter meetings or in any of their WAPF communications is absolutely not tolerated, and that there is room in WAPF for people of all faiths and no faith. I’ve been going to the WAPF conferences for ten years and slowly, there are more and more people of color there, though there’s still a long way to go before attendance isn’t majority white.

  • Also, regarding “raw milk as religion” I cannot speak for everyone who drinks raw milk, some of whom might have a “religious fervor” for raw milk and who don’t know the science behind it (you get those people in any movement or organization). But most of the raw milk drinkers I know are far more informed about health, nutrition, and the science of raw milk and other food safety issues than the general population. After careful research, such informed people have concluded that the science comes down on the side of properly handled raw milk being safer than pasteurized milk.
    Realmilk.com has links on the home page to point-by-point rebuttals to the FDA PowerPoint and several of Bill Marler’s papers. These are extensively documented with references to scientific studies. If others conclude that the FDA or Bill Marler are right, I don’t know what to say other than that I disagree with you, but to point to raw milk drinkers as a bunch of uninformed loonies is simply unfair. Perhaps there are a few, but far more are very knowledgeable about the matter.
    That doesn’t mean that one could never get sick or even die from contaminated raw milk, but that is true of any food. And CDC data show that dairy is safer than any other class of food for which they track foodborne illness, and that raw milk intended for consumption raw is safer than pasteurized milk. There are a lot of factors involved in food safety, from contamination of air, water, and soil to animal husbandry to butchering and processing, to transport to handling to home storage. And there will never be a 100% safe food supply where no one ever gets sick or dies from foodborne illness. Raw milk drinkers are by and large a very informed group who understand what’s important for safe handling of raw milk from farm to kitchen.
    I think it is a terrible tragedy when someone suffers debilitating illness or dies from foodborne illness, and I would understand if they or their family were to speak out against the particular food or company after that, because it’s a very natural response. However, because we can’t ever guarantee 100% safety, all we can do is continue to learn and refine safe handling techniques, build our immune systems, and continue medical research to save people in the inevitable cases where there’s foodborne illness. Raw milk is not inherently dangerous. Pasteurizing it does not guarantee its safety. Raw produce is the most common vector for illness by far, and no one is pushing to pasteurize all produce (that I know of).
    No where is it illegal to drink raw milk; only sale is regulated. It’s obvious that it can be safe since farmers drink raw milk from their own cows their whole lives, and we have populations such as the Amish who’ve been drinking raw milk in their communities for ages without problems.
    I realize in my previous two posts I used my new personal blog email and URL, so it isn’t clear my association with WAPF. I am a member of WAPF and Farm-to-Consumer Legal Defense Fund, and make contributions yearly. I have also been the webmaster for westonaprice.org and realmilk.com in my spare time (I’m paid as an independent contractor) for ten years. I am not an official spokesperson for WAPF. The opinions here are my own based on years of my own personal research. I think they are mostly in harmony with WAPF positions, but as I said, I don’t speak for the foundation.